NPOCP? 2000 Porsche 911 Carrera Auto 67k Miles asking 21k

"404 Name Not Found" (404namenotfound) 08/29/2013 at 18:16 • Filed to: None

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What do you think about this car? It lives in my neighborhood.

twinturbobmw > 404 Name Not Found 08/29/2013 at 18:17

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Nice price. Especially with that milage!

Soloburrito > 404 Name Not Found 08/29/2013 at 18:20

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A 996 Tip isn't my cup o' tea, but the mileage and price seem great.

Remember just because you buy it for $21k doesn't mean it'll have the maintenance costs of a $21k car. It's still a Porsche so you should have plenty of cash on hand in case things go south.

404 Name Not Found > twinturbobmw 08/29/2013 at 18:20

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Really? The edmunds price comes back at 17k. I do wish I had more info about the LMS and the RMS on this car.

404 Name Not Found > Soloburrito 08/29/2013 at 18:21

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I mean the Edmunds price comes back with 17k. The car I have heard is generally very reliable except for the transmission LMS and RMS failures. I like the 996 but again most people don't.

Casper > 404 Name Not Found 08/29/2013 at 18:32

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I would say it would be a better buy around the upper teens. It's not a high demand car and has the wrong transmission to command that high of a price.

Z_Stig > 404 Name Not Found 08/29/2013 at 18:39

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RMS: Rear Main Seal. They leak somewhat. It may have been upgraded with a newer part number in the meantime. Not that big of an issue, really.

And I think you mean IMS. Intermediate shaft, but it's actually the bearing that goes bad. There's a lotta different suggestions to why this goes bad, but in my research I've found it really affects cars that, have extremely low miles and weren't driven regularly, and if the previous owners babied the car everywhere, thereby lugging the engine. These cars being Porsches, don't like to babied everywhere.

996s tend to get a bad rap, but they're not that bad in reality. Get a pre-purchase inspection too.

If it was my money though, I'd find a six speed. I don't like the Tiptronic in this one.

PRBot II > 404 Name Not Found 08/29/2013 at 18:54

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Crack pipe, no manual.

Wave Motion Gun > 404 Name Not Found 08/29/2013 at 19:17

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You can do better. Unless that car is exactly what you want, then it's worth whatever you're willing to pay for your dream. If it's a "what the heck, why not?" purchase, 18-19 if its in great shape. Unloading a tip is a burden in some markets.

I paid less than that for the above, every factory option but the tip and LSD, 20 grand in upgrades, and 57k on the clock.

delete-me-please123 > 404 Name Not Found 08/29/2013 at 19:44

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The 996's are a time bomb.

I had one but got out before the clock ran out. They're cheap for a reason. Run away.

Dunnik > 404 Name Not Found 08/29/2013 at 21:07

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A typical 996 might be, like this one, $20,000.

A typical 993 might be, like this one , $45,000.

Ask yourself why the older model is worth twice the newer one.

And no, it's not entirely due to the "last air-cooled Porsche" thing.

JasonStern911 > Dunnik 08/30/2013 at 01:20

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Spoken like someone that lacks the cash to have driven both.

The 996 is a great car. In base model form, it is more of a luxury touring car than a pure sports car. But a base model 996 will outperform a base model 993 on the track.

And no, it's not entirely due to the "last air-cooled Porsche" thing.

JasonStern911 > delete-me-please123 08/30/2013 at 01:23

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That's unfounded. Outside of the intermediate shaft bearing (affecting 5% of motors tops, with fixes available), the rear main seal (likely replaced by now, or very obvious if it wasn't), and air-oil separator failures at higher mileage, the M96 is a solid motor. If they do fail, it isn't prematurely. People tend not to drive 911s like most people drive Honda Camrys...

delete-me-please123 > JasonStern911 08/30/2013 at 01:57

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Unfounded? Asshole, I owned you. Did you?

JasonStern911 > 404 Name Not Found 08/30/2013 at 02:37

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TL/DR:
996s are awesome.
If you have to ask Oppositelock, you haven't done enough research yet.
Find the options you want.
Be patient.
Do a pre-purchase inspection.
Enjoy.

With a car like the 996, there is no way to know nice price or crackpipe given such little information.

Could you find one cheaper? Absolutely. But is there a reason the car is cheaper? Quite possibly.

First, don't let the haters distract you from a 996. As far as sports cars go, they are more or less reliable, with much of the problems easily fixable from someone willing to take the time to do so. While 911 purists hate this, the fact that the 996 shared many parts with the 986 which launched nearly 2 years earlier lead to many of the design/production hiccups affecting Boxster owners over 911 owners.

From a value standpoint, with 175k models built versus just 68k for the 993, they are unlikely to appreciate in value any time soon. But a base model 996 will easily take a base model 993 on the track, all while providing amenities that make it a more practical daily driver. And when compared to a new BRZ, which goes for $27k + tax + title + license, you are looking at an extra 100 horsepower, a better chassis, better weight distribution, brand recognition, etc. for $10k less, which is enough to replace the motor should the utmost catastrophic engine failure occur.

So, if you are still interested in a 996, let's talk prices. Models can be found for $15k, but as the saying goes, all 911s cost at least $30k - the question is whether you pay for it in the purchase price or in repairs. Unless you are a mechanic with a plethora of Porsche-specific tools, you are best of focusing on a car that should need less repairs.

Which brings us to the point I made earlier about not being able to determine a nice price or crackpipe off of just a basic advertisement. Market value wise, the price listed is a bit high. But is that because the owner has full service records and receipts with the problem areas addressed, and thus justified, or is it priced high because he is testing the market? As you would expect, maintenance and repair records are worth paying extra for. But the best thing you can do if you have any interest in owning a Porsche is find a local independent repair shop that focuses on Porsches. Make friends with the mechanics and workers, get a feel for the cost of ownership. And then, if you are still interested, start looking for one.

Presuming you made it this far, and the car turned out cherry - both with respect to the car's state aesthetically and documented mechanically, the next step is to pay your trusted, independent Porsche mechanic to do a pre-purchase inspection. If the shop is competent, they will find trivial details like a slight pressure leak on the spark plug gaskets that will not affect the ability to daily drive the car, but will help when talking the owner down on purchasing. But most importantly, a $100 inspection fee is likely cheaper than the first repair you will need to make, and thus it is worth the investment.

After all of this, the car might not turn out as great as you were hoping. The owner might even be willing to negotiate the price in order to help convince you that this is the one. But, again, there were 175k 996s built worldwide. If this isn't the one, don't hesitate walking away. Another one, possibly better, may present itself.

At this point, if you did buy it, and if you aren't made of money, you should start saving money for repairs. This is not because they are super unreliable, but because the engine bay is tight and thus dropping the engine to fix something is much more common than a traditional front engine car. As a result, should the engine come out, it is often a good idea financially to replace wear items, such as the air-oil separator, when the engine is out and thus labor is cheap. Can you get away without doing so? Absolutely, but the jaded previous 996 owners probably paid as little as possible to keep the car running, and thus were burned by labor charges that could have been reduced.

By this point, the rear main seal of any early 996 has likely been replaced. If it hasn't, then yes, a costly repair might be needed 9-15 years later. When the engine is done, it might also be worth replacing the intermediate shaft bearing with an LN Engineering replacement. Doing so will address two of the main problems with the 996 motor, which if documented, should increase the value of the car.

The other question this car invokes is that it seems to be a C2 without an aero kit. If all wheel drive or the widebody look matter, then it might be worth passing. Likewise, 996s came with either no driving aids, traction control, or PSM. PSM is amazing, and thus recommended. But the gap between PSM and base model traction control is huge, so it might be worth hunting around to find one with either PSM or no driver aids. But that is entirely a matter of preference.

And finally, the automatic transmission. While they cost more new, they don't add value to the car. Porsche was ahead of the game in producing tiptronic transmissions, but we are still talking about 15 year old tiptronic technology. DSGs and SMGs kill it from an enjoyment standpoint, although the tiptronic might be more reliable due to the age and evolution of the technology. But, it's hard to beat a stick shift.

delete-me-please123 > delete-me-please123 08/30/2013 at 03:01

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-one. How many 996s have you owned?

delete-me-please123 > JasonStern911 08/30/2013 at 03:13

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Spoken like someone who's a dickhead. Plenty of cash here kid. My 996 was fun but I knew enough to get out from under it.

delete-me-please123 > Dunnik 08/30/2013 at 03:17

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Exactly Dunnik, thanks. Pay attentions kids.

delete-me-please123 > Dunnik 08/30/2013 at 03:18

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Spoken like someone who knows what hes talking about.

Z_Stig > delete-me-please123 08/30/2013 at 05:01

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The vast majority of 996s never experience any catastrophic engine failures. So I'd say calling it a time bomb is a little alarmist. For every 996 engine failure, there's probably 20 or so just fine.

DasWauto > delete-me-please123 08/30/2013 at 07:52

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Your car didn't fail and his response sounds informed so calling him an asshole after a well written response was unnecessary.

JasonStern911 > delete-me-please123 08/30/2013 at 23:53

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Spoken like someone who is ignorantly spreading false information.

Not questioning your "internet cred" - I'm sure you have a fleet of ultra-exotic cars us mere mortals can only dream of. But claiming your unfounded opinion of the reliability of a car is based solely on the resale and not based on things such as age, production numbers, etc. is clearly talking out your ass.

Check my other comments on this post. I've addressed the weaknesses of the 996 with - gasp - actual information instead of vague, blanket hater statements.

JasonStern911 > delete-me-please123 08/30/2013 at 23:57

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I have a 996 as a daily driver now that hasn't had any problems, which replaced a 986 that sold after 105k. Not because the motor blew up, car fell apart, or anything bad like that. I sold it because I bought the Boxster because I couldn't afford a 911. That stereotype is definitely true.

And claiming you owned something without providing any proof isn't exactly "owning me" - it just makes you an anonymous person on the internet spreading negativity, presumably to fill some hole in your life.

Just4GP > JasonStern911 09/04/2013 at 19:58

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Too funny. But in all fairness, pr0ject2501 did own one. I very distinctly remember sitting in it during a road trip to Vegas. Sandstorm rolled in out of nowhere and some guy managed to put his new Escalade in a ditch. Both lanes were shut down while a tow truck pulled it out.

Come to think about it, that was the last time I drove a stick.

JasonStern911 > Just4GP 09/05/2013 at 01:32

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and I will gladly do him a favor and buy his 996 off of him for dirt cheap because they are horrible ticking time bombs. :)